Lunations

This is a copy of a live chat that was conducted on the #ProAstrology channel hosted by Greg Dean.

Session Start: Sun Jun 01 10:16:18 1997

GREGORYD: Changes topic to "Sandy Rozhon Chat Forum on Lunations at 2PM EDT"

SANDY: Does anyone here use lunations already?

DONNALYN: Couldn't get the book you recommended yet... but pulled out Cunningham's The Moon in Your Life. I've only looked at eclipses. Not all lunations.

SANDY: O.K., we'll be talking about some stuff that probably isn't in any of the books yet, anyway. Yes, Greg, it's wonderful that you have not only created this, but seen it through for so long.

GREGORYD: Thanx Sandy, you're very nice.

SANDY: Well, you are handling this in a professional manner and not having it be a free for all. O.K. Greg. Let me preface this by saying that I use Lunations for forecasting. I have been using them to forecast for personal events as well as for mundane and weather. So they are highly useful. Most of the books I've read, use the New Moon as an indicator of upcoming events, but seem to leave out the other phases, or grant them lesser importance. My experience has led me to believe that each of them, New Moon, 1st Quarter, Full Moon, and last Quarter are all useful. First of all, to use the phases in forecasting, I would suggest creating a chart for the lunation. This is done relatively easily in programs like Solar Fire where you simply select the Lunation phase (use F11) and then pick a date you want to look at. What I normally do, is create a set of four on a page, starting at the New Moon for each month. If using it for mundane events or weather, I will use Greenwich, England as the location. If for personal use, I will use my current location. Once I have this sheet created, I can observe the aspects that each lunation has and start comparing the lunation chart to my own. These lunations each have a time span over which they seem to have an influence. For the New Moon, 4 weeks. For the Full Moon, 2 weeks. For the Quarter Moons, 1 week. Sometimes you'll notice in your life that an event keeps recurring practically every week for almost a month. That would be due to something that started off on a New Moon. For instance, if you have a New Moon aspecting your Sun, you may be prone to a cold. And while not particularly difficult, you'll find that each week the symptoms crop up again and then go away. The idea behind a New Moon, is that because it is spread out over 4 weeks, the effect is diminished. With a Full Moon, the effect must be realized within a shorter time span, so the things it brings will realize themselves in a more obvious way.

GREGORYD: Hi Mendy relax and enjoy the Lunation chat, Sandy currently has the floor.

SANDY: With the Quarter Moons, we are dealing with very concise periods of time and the events are more striking. The effect must express itself in only a one week span of time, so all the energy seems to burst out at once. When looking at the aspects within a lunation chart, I am using a 3 to 5 degree orb for the New Moon and Full Moon, and a very tight 1 degree orb for the Quarter Moons. Most astrologers say that the transits occur when the transiting planet exactly aspects your natal planet, but there was too many times where I saw that wasn't happening, so I started wondering why sometimes things came out when I thought they should, and other times, earlier. Then again, sometimes the effects were less than I expected. Once I started using the Lunations in this way, I began to see that perhaps there was a better way to track transits and to forecast when they would actually manifest in your life. Any questions so far?

GREGORYD: Are the aspects to current planets, or to one's natal chart?

SANDY: If you are doing a forecast for yourself, then you are looking for aspects from the planets in the lunation to your natal planets.

MENDY: What aspects do you use, Sandy?

SANDY: An example: Let's say that transiting Mars in a quarter Moon chart will exactly square your natal Mars, and the orb is the required 1 degree. Then we would expect that not only would you find yourself feeling quite angry over something, but we could also say that it would involve the house that your Mars rules. Going even further, we can guess at the actual date that this will occur. I only use the conj., opp, sq., and trines. I suppose you could use others, but I've stuck with the main ones.

STACY: How do you determine actual date, Sandy?

SANDY: I am a big fan of house rulers. In fact, the first thing I ever look at is what house the planet rules that is being aspected. Then I look at what the planet would otherwise represent.

BETTE: Sandy, in that mars sq. natal mars example, would this be only valid if t. mars was aspected by the qtr moon??

SANDY: To determine the actual date, I am looking for the trigger point. Using the fastest moving body, the Moon as the trigger, I then watch it's movement and predict that the event will occur when the Moon reaches that position.

SANDY: Bette - The Mars sq. natal Mars would have to occur within that qtr moon. If it doesn't, then the effects of it's transit will be almost unnoticeable.

JOHNH: Hello all, finally found it!

SANDY: With such tight orbs, you will find that if the aspect doesn't occur within the lunations, they just sort of pass on through your life.

GREGORYD: Hi John, welcome to the forum, Sandy is telling us about her lunation technique.

DONNALYN: Hi John!

STACY: Hi John!

SANDY: Now for determining the trigger point, I will draw up a chart with my natal planet in it, and on the outside I will put the position of the Moon at the time of the lunation on the outside of the circle. I will also put the transiting planet that I am watching. The trigger point is usually going to be the midpoint between the transiting planet and the natal planet. When the Moon reaches that midpoint, boom! the aspect is set off.

GREGORYD: If it's a file you can send me Sandy, i.e..gif, I can redistribute it to all those in attendance.

SANDY: Now of course, sometimes the Moon CAN'T reach that position because it is too far away and won't travel far enough in the time span allowed for that particular lunation. Let's say the one week for the quarter moon. In this case, the midpoint has sensitive points at the opposition point, and the square point. When the Moon can reach one of those, it triggers things off. I had hoped to have an illustration of this handy for this session, but didn't get a chance to complete it. Hopefully, I will make something available this week. The most important part of this technique is determining those trigger points and watching the Moon's travel. Back to our example....if the t. Mars was at 10 of Cancer and the n. Mars at 10 Libra, the trigger point would be at 23 Leo. If the Quarter Moon had occurred at 18 of Aries, we would watch for it to reach 23 of Taurus which would put it at a sensitive trigger point. This is probably the hardest thing to convey in writing without a drawing. Anybody having a problem following this?

DONNALYN: I think I get it.

BETTE: OK, one question, why bother with the qtr moon plotting??? why not just watch the moon in it's travels?? (trying to be helpful w/ questions.....)

GREGORYD: Go ahead Sandy, I can always play it back, and will edit it for those who were here and those who wanted to be.

DONNALYN: The transit will manifest when the Moon reaches 23 Taurus because that is square the midpoint?

SANDY: Now using the same example of Mars aspects, if we had been looking at a New Moon where the travel has four weeks of influence, every time the Moon hit one of those sensitive spots, we'd see the effects....they'd be minor, but effects nonetheless (Keep in mind that we are talking about very simple aspects. If you have some heavy stuff in your chart involving many planets, then the effects would naturally be greater.)

SANDY: Bette - because you would not necessarily know if the orb would have been tight enough to bring an event. You might be expecting something every time, but without that tight orb, it wouldn't happen every time.

DONNALYN: The actual aspect has to be within 1 degree orb at time of quarter moon... Then time it based on traveling Moon?

SANDY: It seems as though the lunations are modifiers of our daily lives. They speak to us with events that are out of the ordinary. Yes, Donnalyn. If you look in an ephemeris to see what day the Moon will reach that trigger point and then adjust the time for your location, you will pretty much be able to tell when something will occur.

DONNALYN: Got it. Thanks.

SANDY: With this method, and keeping in mind the house rulerships, you can be more precise in forecasting events in your life. Naturally, the actual house the lunation occurs in can give you clues as to how that period of time will go for you, but the transits are the thing I primarily watch. Are you all familiar with and using house rulerships?

MARION: Do you use the modern house rulers, Sandy?

DONNALYN: Yes.

SANDY: Yes I do, Marion. Let's say you want to know the next time you are prone to getting hurt.

DONNALYN: I've been noticing how much a transit to a house ruler can effect affairs of a house.

SANDY: You'd look for a Mars transit that would aspect your 1st house ruler. That could mean an injury is forthcoming. So you'd look to the nearest lunation and see if Mars will be within the allowable orb for that type of lunation. If it is, then the Moon reaching the trigger point will be when it happens. If it isn't, then you'll have some minor event that you won't pay much attention to. Another example, look at Venus aspects to your 1st house ruler. A tight orb aspect will often times result in either the flu, or a cut from a glass.

DONNALYN: From Venus!?

SANDY: I've been trying to develop a feel for how to determine what type of event will occur and I've noticed some relevance to what quadrant of a chart things are taking place in. I'm not at the point, though, where I feel comfortable sharing that information because I'm not entirely certain of it.

STACY: Give us a clue, and we'll watch with you.

SANDY: But basically, one quadrant would manifest events that are internal, one is external, another is mental, and the last is physical. Yes, Donnalyn. From Venus. I've seen it happen over and over again. In fact, one of the worst accidents I've ever had occurred during a Venus aspect to my 1st house ruler.

DONNALYN: Interesting!

SANDY: I cut my knuckle right down to the bone while washing a drinking glass that then broke and sliced me up pretty badly.

CANCAO: Ouch!

SANDY: Mars brings cuts from metal objects.

STACY: So What's a GOOD aspect?

DONNALYN: Stacy... LOL!

SANDY: Venus seems to have to do with glass and definitely with viruses.

STACY: Wow.

SANDY: Stacy -- You mean like trines and how they would come out?

STACY: No, sorry, just a reference to the Venus thing. But now that you mentions trines and stuff....

SANDY: Venus trine your 1st house ruler might be something that you do out of the ordinary to improve your looks. Maybe you don't get perms very often and then have the opportunity to do so. If you want to know when the next time you will have a cold, just watch for a quarter moon where the Moon itself is Square or Opposite your Sun. That's usually going to bring one of those really nasty colds. If you were wondering when your Income Tax refund was going to arrive, you could watch for a lunation where Mercury favorably aspects your 2nd house ruler. Mercury being mail, and 2nd house ruler governing your money. Trines have midpoints, too, so that point will still be the trigger.

BETTE: Must be why my tax refund hasn't come...no good lunation

SANDY: Much of this is more appropriate for the faster moving planets. When you are dealing with transits from the heavies, you would be better off looking at the eclipses for the year -- both Solar and Lunar. The timing here would be 1 year influence for the Solar and 6 months for the Lunar. In the case of using eclipses, the trigger changes over to the Sun. Because you are dealing with greater periods of time, watching the Moon won't work. Now we watch the travel of the Sun to see when it will reach a trigger point. Bette - if you had Mercury in bad aspect then there would have been delays with the mail. Maybe it would have gone to the wrong address. maybe they're gonna audit me.... Case in point, I had that happen once where I had a bad aspect and mail meant for me, went clear across the country to Oregon and then made it's way back over the period of almost a month!

DONNALYN: Sandy... what orb do you use for determining whether a transit occurs at the time of the eclipse? Same as for lunations? Or larger orb?

SANDY: With the eclipse, you can use 5 to 10 degrees, though I would experiment with the larger orbs. Since those eclipses are covering more territory, and they are basically also New Moons and Full Moons, you'd give them a little more. I've used this method to track certain weather events. For example, wind storms are the result of Mercury aspects to Jupiter, Uranus, or Pluto. (these are aspects within the lunation chart -- no other chart involved)

SANDY: So I'd look for the trigger point and find that our weather is markedly windier on the day the Moon reaches that point.

STACY: Are you all still there?

DONNALYN: Yes Stacy.

SANDY: They are here but very quiet, it looks like. Maybe I've confused them.

DONNALYN: LOL Sandy! You've got us thinking!

DONNALYN: I've got my ephemeris out and looking back at 1973 when I was hit by a car.... Trying to see if it fits with a lunation.

SANDY: If you have a lunation where the Moon is aspecting one of your natal planets, then that means whatever your natal planet rules will be highlighted for that period of time.

BETTE: Last full moon w. Pl had some devastating personal repercussions for some folks w/ natal planets at 3-5 mutable.

SANDY: If you have a difficult natal aspect, then whatever that aspect represents in your life will probably come to light. If it's a difficulty with your children, you'll find out in a big hurry. :) The full moon could have brought it on, but you must also look back to the eclipses to see if they were involved too. Sometimes, things coincide in such a way that it looks like one thing is the reason, but it's really because something at the higher level (eclipse) was being triggered off. If you watch these lunations very carefully, you will begin to be able to tell where events are coming from. You'll gain confidence in the timing mechanism and be able to say, no, that couldn't have come from this or that.

DWS38: Sandy: Do you find that the events in these lunation charts WILL happen or are we set up for the event TO happen.

SANDY: I'm not sure I understand your question.

DONNALYN: Yeah... How do we avoid the next accident?

DWS38: Is the event going to happen or do we let it happen.

SANDY: Take out an insurance policy and duck. :)

DWS38: OK :)

SANDY: I've tried to avoid things. I've tried to alter them. I've tried to ignore them. Nothing seems to work. If it's meant to be, it just seems to invade your life one way or another.

DWS38: Tnx :(

STACY: But one way or another means it can manifest in more than just a cut hand from the glass, right? Oops, manifest.

SANDY: It would manifest in whatever Venus represents. In some lives it may be something other than glass cuts.

STACY: OK.

SANDY: When my husband had this aspect, he got glass slivers in his eye.

DONNALYN: Can we divert the energy into something else represented by Venus? Ouch!

SANDY: I don't know. I've never been successful at doing it.

STACY: This almost sounds more fatalistic than regular transits.

BETTE: There are mental antidotes for planetary energies in church of light teachings.

STACY: Greg, that might be a forum for another day. :)

SANDY: Well, remember, Venus can be a visit from someone. In a bad aspect, it might be an unpleasant visit. In a good one, the person would make you feel happy.

STACY: OK

SANDY: What this method does is tell you where in your life the transits are going to make themselves known to you.

GREGORYD: Good idea Stacy, I'll take it under advisement, and ask myself later :)

SANDY: Look at a transiting sq. from Venus to your natal 4th house ruler and you'll usually find a visit from someone when you find it inconvenient. Maybe your house is a mess, or you had other plans.

BETTE: Or you buy something tasteless???

SANDY: Haha....could be.

DONNALYN: LOL.

MARION: Or you have a bad-hair day.

SANDY: This is handy for preparing for problems with your children. t. Mars aspecting your 5th house ruler in a negative way, means you and your child will not see eye to eye over something. Positive aspects can mean you and your child get a chance to do something special together. Using the timing via the lunations, you can be prepared and not surprised. You can handle a problem with more maturity instead of flying off the handle. Use it to determine when you and your boss are likely to be at odds with each other and then tread lightly.

MARION: Do you mean you check his/her chart too?

SANDY: Mars frequently brings disagreements, or people do things you find upsetting. In positive mode, it puts actions into a more favorable light. No Marion, I would just be using my own. Don't forget, we are looking at how we are going to be perceiving things. Maybe your boss hasn't got a clue that he's doing something that you don't like. But YOU will sure know it and be feeling upset. So we look in our own charts. If you find a lunation that has the Moon aspecting your natal Moon, those are times when we find ourselves the most emotional. When the lunation Moon aspects our natal Sun, it sets off ego issues.

DONNALYN: Sandy, would you expect Mars aspecting the ruler of the sixth to indicate possible accidents as well?

SANDY: Not an accident as much as a health problem. Frequently, internal pains, fevers, and such.

DONNALYN: <--- Still trying to locate lunation or eclipse that triggered 1973 accident Thought I was getting close for a minute there.

SANDY: What is your ruling planet and what degree is it?

DONNALYN: 1 degree Scorpio Rising . So Pluto rules. Or possibly Mars Mars rules 6th.

SANDY: And when did the accident occur?

DONNALYN: 9/29/73.

SANDY: What type of injury did you have?

DONNALYN: Broken teeth. Bruised hip and leg. Abrasions on face. All in all, I was lucky. Couldn't walk for about 3 weeks. But no broken bones. Oh... except hairline fracture at base of neck.

SANDY: Mercury was at 0 LEO in an eclipse in July 73, but I would think the lunation on Oct. 4th 1973 was more likely the one in effect. There you had Mercury and Jupiter both afflicting your ruler.

DONNALYN: The event can happen before the lunation?

SANDY: I should mention that it is possible for an event to come out a little earlier than the lunation that governs it. It depends on where the moon is.

DONNALYN: Aha!

SANDY: The Moon on the day you had your accident was on your ruling planet. Your ruling planet was involved in a T-square. That creates a trigger point that is actually one of the T-square points.

DONNALYN: Thanks Sandy... I'll take a look at all those!

STACY: Sandy, do you have lunation charts at ZZ?

SANDY: That was also a quarter moon and when they produce an event, they really come on like gangbusters. No, I've never written anything up on this, but if there's enough interest I may put something up and will include some illustrations.

DONNALYN: That one sure did! Sandy, Please do!

SSKY: I would appreciate it, too.

STACY: Yes, someone's head is in the way and I can't see the board from here. :)

SANDY: When I started watching these, I would always draw around a natal chart, but after awhile became proficient enough to only need the lunation chart. Knowing your own planets and what they rule is very helpful. Same with anyone else's chart you'd like to forecast for. I predicted for a friend of mine that she'd have an opportunity to get a new car on a particular day and it would come so easily that it would seem to fall into her lap.

BETTE: Stacy--(one of the dangers of sex on the computer is that heads get in the way of the board)

DONNALYN: Stacy... LOL.

STACY: Bette - ROFL!!!

DONNALYN: (Headboard?)

SANDY: She said that they had been looking for one for a month and nothing fit their needs, so hoped that I was right. On the very day I selected from the lunation, a car was found at a lot right on the corner of their street and they got an excellent buy, to boot. ROFL!!!!!!!

DONNALYN: Sandy... which house for cars? Third?

AQUASTELL: :))))

STACY: Sandy, how do you handle rulers of intercepted houses?

SANDY: I'm really trying to develop a fixed set of rules for all of this. Something that would always work. Yes, 3rd house for cars.

BETTE: Sorry folks, my comment was referring to early conversation here....

SANDY: Remember what I said earlier....the lunations are modifiers. Don't look for routine things to show up in them, because they won't. They WILL tell you, however, where your life will deviate from the norm.

BETTE: Sandy, does it make any difference if the Moon in natal isn't very strong?? no!! I flooded her!!!!

STACY: Well, that's the moon for ya!

DONNALYN: Oh no!

STACY: Greg, at the bottom of MIRC screen is a little box with 'trinet' in it and one with B-UP in it. What do they mean?

DONNALYN: I didn't know Sandy lived in a flood plain!

STACY: Hooray!!!

DONNALYN: Yea!

SANDY: I slipped off the log!

DONNALYN: LOL.

AQUASTELL: wb.

BETTE: You aren't allowed to leave early!!!

DONNALYN: It told us you were flooded Sandy!

SANDY: There seems to be a problem with "excess flood"

BETTE: Q: does strength of Moon in natal chart have any bearing on the response to lunations??

SANDY: Maybe too many people are on.

JOHNH: Sandy, would you briefly recap the method in way of summary?

SANDY: Bette: Only if the Moon in your chart is being aspected by something from the lunations. I don't see it as being related in any way other than that.

DONNALYN: Sandy, do we respond more strongly to lunations involving the same phase as the Moon was in natal chart? Did that make sense?

SANDY: I understand what you said, but don't have an answer for you because I never tracked that.

DONNALYN: Okay.

SANDY: John, basically what I do is create the four lunation charts for the month. Then look at an aspects that form between the lunation chart and the natal chart. Next I determine a midpoint for that aspect and watch the travel of the Moon for when it reaches either that midpoint or a place square or opposite that midpoint. I particularly like using these to watch for any problems that might occur in the family. Knowing that your husband is going to make you mad, somehow makes it easier to deal with. :)

DONNALYN: LOL

SANDY: Any other questions?

GREGORYD: It's been a excellent forum Sandy.

DONNALYN: Which house would you use for meeting a new love interest?

SANDY: Have any of you heard of anyone else doing this sort of thing with lunations?

DONNALYN: 7th? 5th?

BETTE: Thank you SO much Sandy!!!!!! I must run now. Hugs to all!!!

DONNALYN: Bye Bette!

SANDY: 5th house, Donnalyn. The 7th would be your legal relationships.

JOHNH: Bye Bette!

STACY: Thanks Greg and Sandy - I'm heading for the coffee and cookies in the back of the room.

SANDY: Bye Bette.

MARION: So long Bette!

DONNALYN: Then look to 7th for when romance becomes serious?

STACY: Bye all!

DONNALYN: Bye Stacy!

GREGORYD: CYA Stacy, will you be signing autographs.

MARION: Thank you very much, Sandy. It was great! Lots to think about.

JOHNH: Sandy, so you basically do a synastric comparison between the lunation chart and the natal....... is that correct?

SANDY: Look to 7th when the romance becomes something that the legal system can sink it's teeth into. ie. divorce, marriage, common-law marriage, etc.

DONNALYN: Good way to put it! LOL.

MARION: Thank you, Greg, for inviting us.

SSKY: Thank you for the forum. I missed the beginning and am a newbie. Are lunation charts the charts for the time of the new/full moon etc.? How (does) this relate to lunar return charts?

Any comments may be sent to Sandy by clicking on the stamp.